My machine is still largely incomplete. I'd need to connect the KFLOP to several inputs/outputs, but I've been told that inputs need to be optoisolated, outputs need to be optoisolated, analog I/Os need some circuitry too and also encoders can't be connected to the KFLOP directly without additional circuitry. And even when you have optoisolated I/Os, relays need additional "reverse diode" (if DC) or a R/C suppressor (if AC and if I understood correctly).

All these things worry me. Some of you are electronics wizards and can make PCBs etc. but that's not my case. I am looking for solutions that require NO welding and NO PCB designing. Just wiring commercially existing components.

Some boards have been suggested on this forum in the past weeks, that either offer some inputs or some outputs, but were untested with the KFLOP. Also they would be missing the encoder interfacing part, relais control, and analog I/O.

One user of this forum is working on a BOB for the KFLOP that will be available for sale, but it isn't configurable and it doesn't look its configuration matches my needs.

Then I realized the KANALOG IS an already made solution that is specific for the KFLOP and addresses nearly everything.
It has optoisolated digital I/Os, analog I/Os, encoders interface, relais interface (and also 232 interface which could be useful).

I am tempted by the KANALOG but its size doesn't fit my cabinet that was custom built around the KFLOP. Should rearrange/rewire all the components which is a huge work I don't mean to do.

So first question is:

how far the KANALOG can be put from the KFLOP? (how long can be the cables?) Do different (shielded?) cables exist that would allow increasing the distance?

Second question is: if I understand correctly, the KANALOG "eats" all the I/Os in the KFLOP JP5 and JP7 headers, but the other headers (namely JP4 and JP6) are still available for use? Is this correct?

In other words, does the KANALOG actually increase the number of available I/Os, or does it just offer a particular interface configuration of the KFLOP I/Os without adding any?

Third question: in the KANALOG online documentation, in the relays driver section, I see a big red waring telling that a reverse diode connected in parallel is needed.

Ouch! This puts me back to designing an electronics addition, buy/weld components etc., which I don't want to do.

Why haven't the diodes been included on the board?

Are there commercial solutions to add this missing diode without welding? e.g a module to fasten on a DIN rail that only needs to be wired?

And while we are at it (as I fear I won't be able to fit a KANALOG in my enclosure anyway), does anybody have experience with commercial DIN rail mounted modules for interfacing the I/Os to the external world? (That work well with the KFLOP?)

I've been told there exists stuff from Phoenix Contact, Omron, Moeller that do the job, but couldn't locate it in their huge catalogs...

Any link or hint would be appreciated

EC

I do not know a lot, but I think I can help.

>> My machine is still largely incomplete. I'd need to connect the KFLOP to several inputs/outputs, but I've been told that inputs need to be optoisolated, outputs need to be optoisolated, analog I/Os need some circuitry too and also encoders can't be connected to the KFLOP directly without additional circuitry. And even when you have optoisolated I/Os, relays need additional "reverse diode" (if DC) or a R/C suppressor (if AC and if I understood correctly).
>

If you want to read differential encoders, find a way to fit KAnalog in your system. It has 8 A+- B+- encoder inputs. If you need to output more than one +-10V signal, Kanalog is the way to go.

>> Reverse diodes

You do not need a circuit board or solder to install a reverse diode on a mechanical DC relay. Just wire it directly to the relay terminals. If you use solid state relays, you do not need extra diodes. Also, most DIN rail relays (like you listed later) have built in surge diodes. If you use a board with multiple relays, they probably already have surge diodes.

>> R/C suppressors

For AC Relays / Contactors - you do not have to build your own with a resistor and capacitor. You can buy suppressors or arcquench etc. dual lead surge suppresors - again, just wire directly to the terminals.

>> I am tempted by the KANALOG but its size doesn't fit my cabinet that was custom built around the KFLOP.
>

I think you will be happy if you find some way to make it fit.
KAnalog sits under the KFlop. The KFlop is 5 x 3.5". With the KAnalog you need 8.5 x 7.0". That is another 3.5" on both sides. If your enclosure is 8 or more inches deep, you might be able to mount the KAnalog/KFlop combo on their side. Then it would only take up about 3 x 8.5. Or, add some tall risers and mount them above something else. Or, mount them on the door?

If you need to mount the KAnalog away from the KFlop some distance... then why not move the KFlop too?

>> Second question is: if I understand correctly, the KANALOG "eats" all the I/Os in the KFLOP JP5 and JP7 headers, but the other headers (namely JP4 and JP6) are still available for use? Is this correct?

In other words, does the KANALOG actually increase the number of available I/Os, or does it just offer a particular interface configuration of the KFLOP I/Os without adding any?

>

Yes, KAnalog does use JP5 and JP7 to connect to KFlop. JP4 and JP6 are still available. KAnalog does not just change the interface on existing KFlop I/Os, it adds more I/Os. As you say, you lose the JP5 and JP7 usage, but you gain all of the KAnalog I/Os. It actaully increases the availabel I/Os.

>> And while we are at it (as I fear I won't be able to fit a KANALOG in my enclosure anyway), does anybody have experience with commercial DIN rail mounted modules for interfacing the I/Os to the external world? (That work well with the KFLOP?)

It all depends on what you are sending outputs to or getting inputs from. It seesm that there are thousands of possibilites. The voltage / current you need will determine what choices you have. I do not know a lot about how to find out what is available, maybe someone else can help you. But; it may help to state exactly what voltage, current and devices you are interfacing with.

Dean

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "ericncn" <ericnc@...> wrote:
>
> My machine is still largely incomplete. I'd need to connect the KFLOP to several inputs/outputs, but I've been told that inputs need to be optoisolated, outputs need to be optoisolated, analog I/Os need some circuitry too and also encoders can't be connected to the KFLOP directly without additional circuitry. And even when you have optoisolated I/Os, relays need additional "reverse diode" (if DC) or a R/C suppressor (if AC and if I understood correctly).
>
> All these things worry me. Some of you are electronics wizards and can make PCBs etc. but that's not my case. I am looking for solutions that require NO welding and NO PCB designing. Just wiring commercially existing components.
>
> Some boards have been suggested on this forum in the past weeks, that either offer some inputs or some outputs, but were untested with the KFLOP. Also they would be missing the encoder interfacing part, relais control, and analog I/O.
>
> One user of this forum is working on a BOB for the KFLOP that will be available for sale, but it isn't configurable and it doesn't look its configuration matches my needs.
>
> Then I realized the KANALOG IS an already made solution that is specific for the KFLOP and addresses nearly everything.
> It has optoisolated digital I/Os, analog I/Os, encoders interface, relais interface (and also 232 interface which could be useful).
>
> I am tempted by the KANALOG but its size doesn't fit my cabinet that was custom built around the KFLOP. Should rearrange/rewire all the components which is a huge work I don't mean to do.
>
> So first question is:
>
> how far the KANALOG can be put from the KFLOP? (how long can be the cables?) Do different (shielded?) cables exist that would allow increasing the distance?
>
> Second question is: if I understand correctly, the KANALOG "eats" all the I/Os in the KFLOP JP5 and JP7 headers, but the other headers (namely JP4 and JP6) are still available for use? Is this correct?
>
> In other words, does the KANALOG actually increase the number of available I/Os, or does it just offer a particular interface configuration of the KFLOP I/Os without adding any?
>
> Third question: in the KANALOG online documentation, in the relays driver section, I see a big red waring telling that a reverse diode connected in parallel is needed.
>
> Ouch! This puts me back to designing an electronics addition, buy/weld components etc., which I don't want to do.
>
> Why haven't the diodes been included on the board?
>
> Are there commercial solutions to add this missing diode without welding? e.g a module to fasten on a DIN rail that only needs to be wired?
>
> And while we are at it (as I fear I won't be able to fit a KANALOG in my enclosure anyway), does anybody have experience with commercial DIN rail mounted modules for interfacing the I/Os to the external world? (That work well with the KFLOP?)
>
> I've been told there exists stuff from Phoenix Contact, Omron, Moeller that do the job, but couldn't locate it in their huge catalogs...
>
> Any link or hint would be appreciated
>
> EC
>

Thank you for the clarifications. It looks like if I could use the KANALOG it would probably solve most of my needs;
I do not have those 3.5" clearance around the KFLOP and moving it to the door together the KANALOG would require running long cables to the motor drives, not sure that would be good.
1" long(er) risers would put it above the other stuff and could do _IF_ KANALOG can be bolted on same hole pattern of KFLOP and that would be stable enough (talking about mechanical stability with the long risers).

Talking about the I/Os I need (apart encoders input and analog outputs), my current needs are:

- home/limit switches
- emergency button
- tool height setter
- probe

- a relay for controlling the coolant pump (220V AC 33 W)
with proper "suppressor" (like I described in other posts,
this pump is disturbing the system when switching on/off)

later I'll need to add:

- read more switches
- relays for controlling solenoids (pneumatic)

Would like some suggestions about what kind of DIN rail mount stuff I could use for interfacing these to the KANALOG,
but also what could I use to interface directly to the LVTTL pins of the KFLOP (if anything exists) ?

EC

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "deanw1a" <deanwyant@...> wrote:
>
> I do not know a lot, but I think I can help.
>
> >> My machine is still largely incomplete. I'd need to connect the KFLOP to several inputs/outputs, but I've been told that inputs need to be optoisolated, outputs need to be optoisolated, analog I/Os need some circuitry too and also encoders can't be connected to the KFLOP directly without additional circuitry. And even when you have optoisolated I/Os, relays need additional "reverse diode" (if DC) or a R/C suppressor (if AC and if I understood correctly).
> >
>
> If you want to read differential encoders, find a way to fit KAnalog in your system. It has 8 A+- B+- encoder inputs. If you need to output more than one +-10V signal, Kanalog is the way to go.
>
> >> Reverse diodes
> You do not need a circuit board or solder to install a reverse diode on a mechanical DC relay. Just wire it directly to the relay terminals. If you use solid state relays, you do not need extra diodes. Also, most DIN rail relays (like you listed later) have built in surge diodes. If you use a board with multiple relays, they probably already have surge diodes.
>
> >> R/C suppressors
> For AC Relays / Contactors - you do not have to build your own with a resistor and capacitor. You can buy suppressors or arcquench etc. dual lead surge suppresors - again, just wire directly to the terminals.
> - some other switches/buttons

> >> I am tempted by the KANALOG but its size doesn't fit my cabinet that was custom built around the KFLOP.
> >
>
> I think you will be happy if you find some way to make it fit.
> KAnalog sits under the KFlop. The KFlop is 5 x 3.5". With the KAnalog you need 8.5 x 7.0". That is another 3.5" on both sides. If your enclosure is 8 or more inches deep, you might be able to mount the KAnalog/KFlop combo on their side. Then it would only take up about 3 x 8.5. Or, add some tall risers and mount them above something else. Or, mount them on the door?
>
> If you need to mount the KAnalog away from the KFlop some distance... then why not move the KFlop too?
>
> >> Second question is: if I understand correctly, the KANALOG "eats" all the I/Os in the KFLOP JP5 and JP7 headers, but the other headers (namely JP4 and JP6) are still available for use? Is this correct?
> In other words, does the KANALOG actually increase the number of available I/Os, or does it just offer a particular interface configuration of the KFLOP I/Os without adding any?
> >
>
>
> Yes, KAnalog does use JP5 and JP7 to connect to KFlop. JP4 and JP6 are still available. KAnalog does not just change the interface on existing KFlop I/Os, it adds more I/Os. As you say, you lose the JP5 and JP7 usage, but you gain all of the KAnalog I/Os. It actaully increases the availabel I/Os.
>
> >> And while we are at it (as I fear I won't be able to fit a KANALOG in my enclosure anyway), does anybody have experience with commercial DIN rail mounted modules for interfacing the I/Os to the external world? (That work well with the KFLOP?)
>
> It all depends on what you are sending outputs to or getting inputs from. It seesm that there are thousands of possibilites. The voltage / current you need will determine what choices you have. I do not know a lot about how to find out what is available, maybe someone else can help you. But; it may help to state exactly what voltage, current and devices you are interfacing with.
>
> Dean
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "ericncn" <ericnc@> wrote:
> >
> > My machine is still largely incomplete. I'd need to connect the KFLOP to several inputs/outputs, but I've been told that inputs need to be optoisolated, outputs need to be optoisolated, analog I/Os need some circuitry too and also encoders can't be connected to the KFLOP directly without additional circuitry. And even when you have optoisolated I/Os, relays need additional "reverse diode" (if DC) or a R/C suppressor (if AC and if I understood correctly).
> >
> > All these things worry me. Some of you are electronics wizards and can make PCBs etc. but that's not my case. I am looking for solutions that require NO welding and NO PCB designing. Just wiring commercially existing components.
> >
> > Some boards have been suggested on this forum in the past weeks, that either offer some inputs or some outputs, but were untested with the KFLOP. Also they would be missing the encoder interfacing part, relais control, and analog I/O.
> >
> > One user of this forum is working on a BOB for the KFLOP that will be available for sale, but it isn't configurable and it doesn't look its configuration matches my needs.
> >
> > Then I realized the KANALOG IS an already made solution that is specific for the KFLOP and addresses nearly everything.
> > It has optoisolated digital I/Os, analog I/Os, encoders interface, relais interface (and also 232 interface which could be useful).
> >
> > I am tempted by the KANALOG but its size doesn't fit my cabinet that was custom built around the KFLOP. Should rearrange/rewire all the components which is a huge work I don't mean to do.
> >
> > So first question is:
> >
> > how far the KANALOG can be put from the KFLOP? (how long can be the cables?) Do different (shielded?) cables exist that would allow increasing the distance?
> >
> > Second question is: if I understand correctly, the KANALOG "eats" all the I/Os in the KFLOP JP5 and JP7 headers, but the other headers (namely JP4 and JP6) are still available for use? Is this correct?
> >
> > In other words, does the KANALOG actually increase the number of available I/Os, or does it just offer a particular interface configuration of the KFLOP I/Os without adding any?
> >
> > Third question: in the KANALOG online documentation, in the relays driver section, I see a big red waring telling that a reverse diode connected in parallel is needed.
> >
> > Ouch! This puts me back to designing an electronics addition, buy/weld components etc., which I don't want to do.
> >
> > Why haven't the diodes been included on the board?
> >
> > Are there commercial solutions to add this missing diode without welding? e.g a module to fasten on a DIN rail that only needs to be wired?
> >
> > And while we are at it (as I fear I won't be able to fit a KANALOG in my enclosure anyway), does anybody have experience with commercial DIN rail mounted modules for interfacing the I/Os to the external world? (That work well with the KFLOP?)
> >
> > I've been told there exists stuff from Phoenix Contact, Omron, Moeller that do the job, but couldn't locate it in their huge catalogs...
> >
> > Any link or hint would be appreciated
> >
> > EC

I guess it depends on which holes in KFlop you used.
You would definitely need to add two more risers out at the far corners of KAnalog. The manual has the hole patterns.

I am not sure I would do that.
I mentioned "the door" thinking that your enclosure where KFlop is located might have a door.

I'll let someone else address the KFlop LVTTL interfacing options.

Good luck.

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "ericncn" <ericnc@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Thank you for the clarifications. It looks like if I could use the KANALOG it would probably solve most of my needs;
> I do not have those 3.5" clearance around the KFLOP and moving it to the door together the KANALOG would require running long cables to the motor drives, not sure that would be good.
> 1" long(er) risers would put it above the other stuff and could do _IF_ KANALOG can be bolted on same hole pattern of KFLOP and that would be stable enough (talking about mechanical stability with the long risers).
>
> Talking about the I/Os I need (apart encoders input and analog outputs), my current needs are:
>
> - home/limit switches
> - emergency button
> - tool height setter
> - probe
>
> - a relay for controlling the coolant pump (220V AC 33 W)
> with proper "suppressor" (like I described in other posts,
> this pump is disturbing the system when switching on/off)
>
> later I'll need to add:
>
> - read more switches
> - relays for controlling solenoids (pneumatic)
>
> Would like some suggestions about what kind of DIN rail mount stuff I could use for interfacing these to the KANALOG,
> but also what could I use to interface directly to the LVTTL pins of the KFLOP (if anything exists) ?
>
> EC
>

Yes I was talking about the enclosure door!
If the KFLOP is moved to the enclosure door and the door must be able to open/close normally, the cables connecting the KFLOP to the motor drives would need to be quite long!

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "deanw1a" <deanwyant@...> wrote:
>
> I guess it depends on which holes in KFlop you used.
> You would definitely need to add two more risers out at the far corners of KAnalog. The manual has the hole patterns.
>
> I am not sure I would do that.
> I mentioned "the door" thinking that your enclosure where KFlop is located might have a door.
>
> I'll let someone else address the KFlop LVTTL interfacing options.
>
> Good luck.
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "ericncn" <ericnc@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you for the clarifications. It looks like if I could use the KANALOG it would probably solve most of my needs;
> > I do not have those 3.5" clearance around the KFLOP and moving it to the door together the KANALOG would require running long cables to the motor drives, not sure that would be good.
> > 1" long(er) risers would put it above the other stuff and could do _IF_ KANALOG can be bolted on same hole pattern of KFLOP and that would be stable enough (talking about mechanical stability with the long risers).
> >
> > Talking about the I/Os I need (apart encoders input and analog outputs), my current needs are:
> >
> > - home/limit switches
> > - emergency button
> > - tool height setter
> > - probe
> >
> > - a relay for controlling the coolant pump (220V AC 33 W)
> > with proper "suppressor" (like I described in other posts,
> > this pump is disturbing the system when switching on/off)
> >
> > later I'll need to add:
> >
> > - read more switches
> > - relays for controlling solenoids (pneumatic)
> >
> > Would like some suggestions about what kind of DIN rail mount stuff I could use for interfacing these to the KANALOG,
> > but also what could I use to interface directly to the LVTTL pins of the KFLOP (if anything exists) ?
> >
> > EC
> >
>

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "ericncn" wrote:
>
> Yes I was talking about the enclosure door!
> If the KFLOP is moved to the enclosure door and the door must be able to open/close normally, the cables connecting the KFLOP to the motor drives would need to be quite long!
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "deanw1a" deanwyant@ wrote:
> >
> > I guess it depends on which holes in KFlop you used.
> > You would definitely need to add two more risers out at the far corners of KAnalog. The manual has the hole patterns.
> >
> > I am not sure I would do that.
> > I mentioned "the door" thinking that your enclosure where KFlop is located might have a door.
> >
> > I'll let someone else address the KFlop LVTTL interfacing options.
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
> > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "ericncn" wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you for the clarifications. It looks like if I could use the KANALOG it would probably solve most of my needs;
> > > I do not have those 3.5" clearance around the KFLOP and moving it to the door together the KANALOG would require running long cables to the motor drives, not sure that would be good.
> > > 1" long(er) risers would put it above the other stuff and could do _IF_ KANALOG can be bolted on same hole pattern of KFLOP and that would be stable enough (talking about mechanical stability with the long risers).
> > >
> > > Talking about the I/Os I need (apart encoders input and analog outputs), my current needs are:
> > >
> > > - home/limit switches
> > > - emergency button
> > > - tool height setter
> > > - probe
> > >
> > > - a relay for controlling the coolant pump (220V AC 33 W)
> > > with proper "suppressor" (like I described in other posts,
> > > this pump is disturbing the system when switching on/off)
> > >
> > > later I'll need to add:
> > >
> > > - read more switches
> > > - relays for controlling solenoids (pneumatic)
> > >
> > > Would like some suggestions about what kind of DIN rail mount stuff I could use for interfacing these to the KANALOG,
> > > but also what could I use to interface directly to the LVTTL pins of the KFLOP (if anything exists) ?
> > >
> > > EC
> > >
> >
>

Yes I am already running servos with encoders, but the loop is closed on the servo drives only and the KFLOP is using them open loop.
As the servo drives have pass-through encoder signals connectors, I would like to route the encoder signals to the KFLOP.

Also, I am currently controlling the servos in quadrature, but once the KFLOP will be setup to read the encoders correctly I would also like to try controlling the drives in torque mode via 0-10V signals.
I also would need a 0-10V output signal to control the new spindle motor drive.

Thank you for the links, I'll check them; I remember the Winford been mentioned but it doesn't help with interfacing the encoder and the analog I/Os.

A vendor I talked with mentioned there exist DIN things from Phoenix Contact that cost around 5$ (And also Omron and Moeller) but I wasn't able to locate them on the huge catalogs
that's why I asked if somebody has direct experience with those and could point me to the appropriate products so I can order them

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "deanw1a" <deanwyant@...> wrote:
>
> I see nobody has stepped in to suggest interface options. There are some
> threads discussing the options. If you cannot locate them, maybe someone
> else will jump in to help you out.
> I really do not know much about interfacing directly to KFlop... I was
> just trying to help you on some simple questions about coil surge
> suppressors.
> I am sorry, I thought you were just starting. From searching for your
> posts I see that you already have something running with encoders. If
> the list you added is all you need, then I guess you do not need
> KAnalog.
> Here is the little I know about options other than KAnalog:Winford
> Engineering was suggested to me for BOBS and relay boards. Ebay and
> SainSmart have some inexpensive 2,4,8 and 16 relay boards and a couple
> of SSR boards, I have a couple, but I have not tested
> them.http://umaxcnc.com/ <http://umaxcnc.com/> has a smaller board.
> There is also a pmdx board. I do not know anything about them. I am sure
> there are more.Yes, there are DIN rail devices. They are usually pretty
> expensive. If you have the $, then ask again and hopefully someone can
> tell part numbers and you where to buy them.
> If all you have left to interface is what you listed, then you should be
> able to interface each separately without needing another big interface
> board.
> Switches - Here is a thread on interfacing
> switches:http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DynoMotion/message/5822
> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DynoMotion/message/5822>
> I am sure there are other threads that discuss more about switches and
> sample code. With your noise problems, you may want to get
> opto-isolators and use 24v or 12v instead of 3.3v so noise will not be
> such an issue. Or you could get a 3.3v to 5v logic level converter (LLC)
> to bring the votage up above the noise more and help protect the KFlop
> inputs. However, I do not know where to buy a converter with terminals.
> For your probes, you need to know what voltage / signals they output
> before you can figure out how to interface them.
> For you coolant pump. You seem to already be switching it. So, yes you
> have to put a suppressor on the coil. If that does not solve the problem
> from it, it may help to add a resistor - capacitor from the contactor
> output terminals to cabinet ground. However, I do not know much about
> that... :)
> Contactor/relay and motor noise problems are not specific to KFlop -
> there is a lot of information about suppressing noise on the net. You
> have to have suppressors on all of your relay/contactor coils. DC coils
> just need a reverse diode and AC coils need an R/C.
> Good luck. I am sorry I could not be of more help.
> Dean
>
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "ericncn" wrote:
> >
> > Yes I was talking about the enclosure door!
> > If the KFLOP is moved to the enclosure door and the door must be able
> to open/close normally, the cables connecting the KFLOP to the motor
> drives would need to be quite long!
> >
> > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "deanw1a" deanwyant@ wrote:
> > >
> > > I guess it depends on which holes in KFlop you used.
> > > You would definitely need to add two more risers out at the far
> corners of KAnalog. The manual has the hole patterns.
> > >
> > > I am not sure I would do that.
> > > I mentioned "the door" thinking that your enclosure where KFlop is
> located might have a door.
> > >
> > > I'll let someone else address the KFlop LVTTL interfacing options.
> > >
> > > Good luck.
> > >
> > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "ericncn" wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for the clarifications. It looks like if I could use the
> KANALOG it would probably solve most of my needs;
> > > > I do not have those 3.5" clearance around the KFLOP and moving it
> to the door together the KANALOG would require running long cables to
> the motor drives, not sure that would be good.
> > > > 1" long(er) risers would put it above the other stuff and could do
> _IF_ KANALOG can be bolted on same hole pattern of KFLOP and that would
> be stable enough (talking about mechanical stability with the long
> risers).
> > > >
> > > > Talking about the I/Os I need (apart encoders input and analog
> outputs), my current needs are:
> > > >
> > > > - home/limit switches
> > > > - emergency button
> > > > - tool height setter
> > > > - probe
> > > >
> > > > - a relay for controlling the coolant pump (220V AC 33 W)
> > > > with proper "suppressor" (like I described in other posts,
> > > > this pump is disturbing the system when switching on/off)
> > > >
> > > > later I'll need to add:
> > > >
> > > > - read more switches
> > > > - relays for controlling solenoids (pneumatic)
> > > >
> > > > Would like some suggestions about what kind of DIN rail mount
> stuff I could use for interfacing these to the KANALOG,
> > > > but also what could I use to interface directly to the LVTTL pins
> of the KFLOP (if anything exists) ?
> > > >
> > > > EC

Yes I would like to connect the encoders to both the motor drives and the KFLOP. I believe I've answered all these questions in the other email I just posted.

Thank for the link to those little things on cnc4pc.com

Looks like they (together with some other items) could solve at least part of my needs.

Still I'm a bit confused and need to gather more info before taking a decision

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "deanw1a" <deanwyant@...> wrote:
>
>
> I'm sorry. I Looked again and you say that you do not have the encoders
> hooked up. I though the list you provided in the last post was complete.
> If you need to hook up differential encoders, then you probably need an
> interface board. I use KAnalog for that - it has 8 channels of A/B
> differential inputs. I am not sure what other options are available.
> Also, I do not know if the encoders are connected to your drives... if
> you need to connect them to the drives and KFlop or just KFlop. I do not
> know if you are using Position mode- Step/Dir drives, servo drives or
> stepper drives. If you are using Step/Dir, then KAnalog requires you to
> mux the the Step/Dir outs to JP4 and 6 (4 axis), and/or you need to not
> connect JP5 and use those (losing KA JP2 = 4 of the 8 diff encoder input
> sets). If you have drives that take +-10V command input, then you are
> looking at wanting KAnalog again. For encoder converters, I found this
> when I
> looked:http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=64_78&prod\
> ucts_id=401
> <http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=64_78&products_i\
> d=401>
> I have not used them. They should work to interface your encoders to
> KFlop. With your noise problems, I would not try using singles from the
> encoders.
> Dean
>
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "ericncn" <ericnc@> wrote:>> Yes I
> was talking about the enclosure door!> If the KFLOP is moved to the
> enclosure door and the door must be able to open/close normally, the
> cables connecting the KFLOP to the motor drives would need to be quite
> long!>
>

You need the KAnalog board (or similar) to do what you are planning. I do not know if there is another board or combinations of boards that will do everything you have listed (+-10V for drives and VFD, Diff encoder inputs, etc.) . If you use other components instead, you are probably going to spend much more time and money and have more headaches.

The wiring from a door to the inside of an enclosure is not too long. You can mount the KAnalog with the KFlop on top of it and use the door as an extra wiring panel. You would not be the first one to do it.

There is a picture of what someone else has done: Go to the files section.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DynoMotion/files/Fouijar%20CNC%20Files/ 

Open Control Enclosure.jpg

>>A vendor I talked with mentioned there exist DIN things from Phoenix Contact that cost around 5$

DIN things? That is difficult to get a part# for. :) Obviously, I am joking. I am not sure what useful DIN  things you can get for <= $5. You may want to talk to him again and find out.

You have to state what voltage and current you are interfacing.  If you want a relay part number, then we need to know what is going to the coil of the relay (KFlop output bit #?) and what voltage/current you need the contacts to handle. If you need one N.O, one N.C, multiple contacts, etc.

There is no need to worry about relays etc. until you decide on what board / components you will use to get the multiple channels of  diff encoder inputs and +-10V outputs.  Unless you are thinking that Phoenix Contacts makes some encoder signal converters and DACs for $5??? I do not think so, but I do not know.

You are going to want/need some relays even if you end up using KAnalog - your voltage/current options for the coils are just much greater.

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "ericncn" <ericnc@...> wrote:
>
> Yes I am already running servos with encoders, but the loop is closed on the servo drives only and the KFLOP is using them open loop.
> As the servo drives have pass-through encoder signals connectors, I would like to route the encoder signals to the KFLOP.
>
> Also, I am currently controlling the servos in quadrature, but once the KFLOP will be setup to read the encoders correctly I would also like to try controlling the drives in torque mode via 0-10V signals.
> I also would need a 0-10V output signal to control the new spindle motor drive.
>
> Thank you for the links, I'll check them; I remember the Winford been mentioned but it doesn't help with interfacing the encoder and the analog I/Os.
>
> A vendor I talked with mentioned there exist DIN things from Phoenix Contact that cost around 5$ (And also Omron and Moeller) but I wasn't able to locate them on the huge catalogs
> that's why I asked if somebody has direct experience with those and could point me to the appropriate products so I can order them
>

 

I see. That picture is a bit scaring (so many wires) but I see, Kflop/Kanalog installed on the door.

The cheap DIN "things" I was referring to were the solid state relays type. Still missing actual price and part number.

Regarding relays one thing I need to interface by sure is the coolant pump, 33 W 220 AC, would appreciate suggstions on the relay type and "suppressor" (?) to use

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "deanw1a" <deanwyant@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> You need the KAnalog board (or similar) to do what you are planning. I
> do not know if there is another board or combinations of boards that
> will do everything you have listed (+-10V for drives and VFD, Diff
> encoder inputs, etc.) . If you use other components instead, you are
> probably going to spend much more time and money and have more
> headaches.
>
> The wiring from a door to the inside of an enclosure is not too long.
> You can mount the KAnalog with the KFlop on top of it and use the door
> as an extra wiring panel. You would not be the first one to do it.
>
> There is a picture of what someone else has done: Go to the files
> section.
>
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DynoMotion/files/Fouijar%20CNC%20File\
> s/
> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DynoMotion/files/Fouijar%20CNC%20Fil\
> es/>
>
> Open Control Enclosure.jpg
> <http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/tKjJUfepX8X7iHtbOlAUpftLEMrnSs_WU6xaE3ySg3\
> blKZDbpKB-scNtHyX3ZR4ykNosOnAgr8voEKlFHukQf8_8Y_0Ir0RoWf_4RiIXBV-Qsg/Fou\
> ijar%20CNC%20Files/Control%20Enclosure.jpg>
>
> >>A vendor I talked with mentioned there exist DIN things from Phoenix
> Contact that cost around 5$
>
> DIN things? That is difficult to get a part# for. :) Obviously, I am
> joking. I am not sure what useful DIN things you can get for <= $5. You
> may want to talk to him again and find out.
>
> You have to state what voltage and current you are interfacing. If you
> want a relay part number, then we need to know what is going to the coil
> of the relay (KFlop output bit #?) and what voltage/current you need the
> contacts to handle. If you need one N.O, one N.C, multiple contacts,
> etc.
>
> There is no need to worry about relays etc. until you decide on what
> board / components you will use to get the multiple channels of diff
> encoder inputs and +-10V outputs. Unless you are thinking that Phoenix
> Contacts makes some encoder signal converters and DACs for $5??? I do
> not think so, but I do not know.
>
>
> You are going to want/need some relays even if you end up using KAnalog
> - your voltage/current options for the coils are just much greater.
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com> ,
> "ericncn" <ericnc@> wrote:
> >
> > Yes I am already running servos with encoders, but the loop is closed
> on the servo drives only and the KFLOP is using them open loop.
> > As the servo drives have pass-through encoder signals connectors, I
> would like to route the encoder signals to the KFLOP.
> >
> > Also, I am currently controlling the servos in quadrature, but once
> the KFLOP will be setup to read the encoders correctly I would also like
> to try controlling the drives in torque mode via 0-10V signals.
> > I also would need a 0-10V output signal to control the new spindle
> motor drive.
> >
> > Thank you for the links, I'll check them; I remember the Winford been
> mentioned but it doesn't help with interfacing the encoder and the
> analog I/Os.
> >
> > A vendor I talked with mentioned there exist DIN things from Phoenix
> Contact that cost around 5$ (And also Omron and Moeller) but I wasn't
> able to locate them on the huge catalogs
> > that's why I asked if somebody has direct experience with those and
> could point me to the appropriate products so I can order them
> >
>

I keep trying to reply but I hit some odd key and lose it all. 

I see you are repeating same question again and again and I'm repeating same answer again and again.. there's probably some basic misunderstanding on my side, pardon me for that.

Maybe you mean that I need to add a DC power supply in order to drive the optoisolated inputs and outputs? If this is obvious for you pardon me, it's not obvious for me... just trying to figure out how all this works before spending money and purchasing the missing items

And yes, the pump I am using for flood coolant is 33W, 220 Ac.
That was originally a fish tank pump, but the flow it makes is more than enough for my small mill and it's very silent too! Why not use it?

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "deanw1a" <deanwyant@...> wrote:
>
> I keep trying to reply but I hit some odd key and lose it all. [:(]
> I am sorry... You have to state what voltage and current you are
> interfacing. If you want a relay part number, then we need to know what
> is going to the coil of the relay (KFlop output bit #?, Kanalog Opto
> out, FET out?, other?) and what voltage/current you need the contacts to
> handle. If you need one N.O, one N.C, multiple contacts, etc.
> Pump = 33W, 220 Ac - This sounds incorrect unless you are talking about
> a pump for a water cooled spindle. I thought you meant flood coolant.You
> can switch that with just about any small relay. But, you need two N.O.
> poles (contacts).
>
> I would like to help. But, you still need to state what voltage and
> current you are going to use to turn the relay on and off. If you do go
> with KAnalog, you can use 24VDC which gives you lots of options for
> relays. If you use KFlop, your probably stuck with PC board relays like
> I already suggested. Perhaps Winford has a DIN mount for theirs? DIN
> solid state relays that will work directly with KFlop are probably $25
> to $70 each. And, I do not know if they make any with 2 N.O. outputs.
> By the way, solid state relays do not need a diode surge suppressor and
> most of them have a single N.O. output.
> I am sorry, but I have never seen or heard of DIN solid state relays for
> $5. Mechanical ones... maybe. You may be able to get a deal like that
> buying used on eBay.
>
> Dean
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "ericncn" wrote:
> >
> > I see. That picture is a bit scaring (so many wires) but I see,
> Kflop/Kanalog installed on the door.
> >
> > The cheap DIN "things" I was referring to were the solid state relays
> type. Still missing actual price and part number.
> >
> > Regarding relays one thing I need to interface by sure is the coolant
> pump, 33 W 220 AC, would appreciate suggstions on the relay type and
> "suppressor" (?) to use
> >
> > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "deanw1a" deanwyant@ wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You need the KAnalog board (or similar) to do what you are planning.
> I
> > > do not know if there is another board or combinations of boards that
> > > will do everything you have listed (+-10V for drives and VFD, Diff
> > > encoder inputs, etc.) . If you use other components instead, you are
> > > probably going to spend much more time and money and have more
> > > headaches.
> > >
> > > The wiring from a door to the inside of an enclosure is not too
> long.
> > > You can mount the KAnalog with the KFlop on top of it and use the
> door
> > > as an extra wiring panel. You would not be the first one to do it.
> > >
> > > There is a picture of what someone else has done: Go to the files
> > > section.
> > >
> > >
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DynoMotion/files/Fouijar%20CNC%20File\
> \
> > > s/
> > > > > es/>
> > >
> > > Open Control Enclosure.jpg
> > > > >
> blKZDbpKB-scNtHyX3ZR4ykNosOnAgr8voEKlFHukQf8_8Y_0Ir0RoWf_4RiIXBV-Qsg/Fou\
> \
> > > ijar%20CNC%20Files/Control%20Enclosure.jpg>
> > >
> > > >>A vendor I talked with mentioned there exist DIN things from
> Phoenix
> > > Contact that cost around 5$
> > >
> > > DIN things? That is difficult to get a part# for. :) Obviously, I am
> > > joking. I am not sure what useful DIN things you can get for <= $5.
> You
> > > may want to talk to him again and find out.
> > >
> > > You have to state what voltage and current you are interfacing. If
> you
> > > want a relay part number, then we need to know what is going to the
> coil
> > > of the relay (KFlop output bit #?) and what voltage/current you need
> the
> > > contacts to handle. If you need one N.O, one N.C, multiple contacts,
> > > etc.
> > >
> > > There is no need to worry about relays etc. until you decide on what
> > > board / components you will use to get the multiple channels of
> diff
> > > encoder inputs and +-10V outputs. Unless you are thinking that
> Phoenix
> > > Contacts makes some encoder signal converters and DACs for $5??? I
> do
> > > not think so, but I do not know.
> > >
> > >
> > > You are going to want/need some relays even if you end up using
> KAnalog
> > > - your voltage/current options for the coils are just much greater.
> > >
> > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com > > "ericncn" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Yes I am already running servos with encoders, but the loop is
> closed
> > > on the servo drives only and the KFLOP is using them open loop.
> > > > As the servo drives have pass-through encoder signals connectors,
> I
> > > would like to route the encoder signals to the KFLOP.
> > > >
> > > > Also, I am currently controlling the servos in quadrature, but
> once
> > > the KFLOP will be setup to read the encoders correctly I would also
> like
> > > to try controlling the drives in torque mode via 0-10V signals.
> > > > I also would need a 0-10V output signal to control the new spindle
> > > motor drive.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for the links, I'll check them; I remember the Winford
> been
> > > mentioned but it doesn't help with interfacing the encoder and the
> > > analog I/Os.
> > > >
> > > > A vendor I talked with mentioned there exist DIN things from
> Phoenix
> > > Contact that cost around 5$ (And also Omron and Moeller) but I
> wasn't
> > > able to locate them on the huge catalogs
> > > > that's why I asked if somebody has direct experience with those
> and
> > > could point me to the appropriate products so I can order them

I'm sorry, I do not see the answer to my questions -
except for your pump specs. I figured you had more specs for the other stuff you want to control. Once you said that you wanted 0-10V control signals, I figured you needed to decide how to get them first. The board you use to get them could have other outputs to use. KAnalog certainly does.

I am going to assume that at this time all you want to do is switch your pump on and off using KFlop. If so, you could use either of the suggested relay boards. I believe that both can handle 220VAC on the output contacts and both include supressor diodes installed. You will need to use two relays for the pump because I think each relay only has one pole (can switch only one path - N.O. or N.C.).
These boards are not DIN rail mounted.
If you want DIN rail mount relays to switch your pump directly from KFlop LVTTL, I do not know any part numbers. But, I do know that if they are available - they will cost a lot more.
You could use a logic level converter (LLC) to take the KFlop outputs from 3.3VDC to 5VDC. Then, you would have more options in DIN relays. However, these (LLCs) are ususally little circuit boards that require soldering and/or mounting on a breadboard/circuit board. There may be a screw terminal version available, but I do not know.

Also, you are going to want to put fuses ahead of the pump before the relay contacts to keep those lines from being able to draw a lot of current if there is a short. 1A should do.

Opto isolators would be good, but I do not know any part numbers or sources for ones that will work for LVTTL from KFlop. Search the messages and maybe someone has posted a source. I would think there should be info on relays, optos etc. to use with KFlop.

Sorry I could not be of more help. Hopefully, someone else can give you more specific guidance.

Dean

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "ericncn" <ericnc@...> wrote:
>
> I see you are repeating same question again and again and I'm repeating same answer again and again.. there's probably some basic misunderstanding on my side, pardon me for that.
>
> Maybe you mean that I need to add a DC power supply in order to drive the optoisolated inputs and outputs? If this is obvious for you pardon me, it's not obvious for me... just trying to figure out how all this works before spending money and purchasing the missing items
>
> And yes, the pump I am using for flood coolant is 33W, 220 Ac.
> That was originally a fish tank pump, but the flow it makes is more than enough for my small mill and it's very silent too! Why not use it?
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "deanw1a" <deanwyant@> wrote:
> >
> > I keep trying to reply but I hit some odd key and lose it all. [:(]
> > I am sorry... You have to state what voltage and current you are
> > interfacing. If you want a relay part number, then we need to know what
> > is going to the coil of the relay (KFlop output bit #?, Kanalog Opto
> > out, FET out?, other?) and what voltage/current you need the contacts to
> > handle. If you need one N.O, one N.C, multiple contacts, etc.
> > Pump = 33W, 220 Ac - This sounds incorrect unless you are talking about
> > a pump for a water cooled spindle. I thought you meant flood coolant.You
> > can switch that with just about any small relay. But, you need two N.O.
> > poles (contacts).
> >
> > I would like to help. But, you still need to state what voltage and
> > current you are going to use to turn the relay on and off. If you do go
> > with KAnalog, you can use 24VDC which gives you lots of options for
> > relays. If you use KFlop, your probably stuck with PC board relays like
> > I already suggested. Perhaps Winford has a DIN mount for theirs? DIN
> > solid state relays that will work directly with KFlop are probably $25
> > to $70 each. And, I do not know if they make any with 2 N.O. outputs.
> > By the way, solid state relays do not need a diode surge suppressor and
> > most of them have a single N.O. output.
> > I am sorry, but I have never seen or heard of DIN solid state relays for
> > $5. Mechanical ones... maybe. You may be able to get a deal like that
> > buying used on eBay.
> >
> > Dean
> > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "ericncn" wrote:
> > >
> > > I see. That picture is a bit scaring (so many wires) but I see,
> > Kflop/Kanalog installed on the door.
> > >
> > > The cheap DIN "things" I was referring to were the solid state relays
> > type. Still missing actual price and part number.
> > >
> > > Regarding relays one thing I need to interface by sure is the coolant
> > pump, 33 W 220 AC, would appreciate suggstions on the relay type and
> > "suppressor" (?) to use
> > >
> > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "deanw1a" deanwyant@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You need the KAnalog board (or similar) to do what you are planning.
> > I
> > > > do not know if there is another board or combinations of boards that
> > > > will do everything you have listed (+-10V for drives and VFD, Diff
> > > > encoder inputs, etc.) . If you use other components instead, you are
> > > > probably going to spend much more time and money and have more
> > > > headaches.
> > > >
> > > > The wiring from a door to the inside of an enclosure is not too
> > long.
> > > > You can mount the KAnalog with the KFlop on top of it and use the
> > door
> > > > as an extra wiring panel. You would not be the first one to do it.
> > > >
> > > > There is a picture of what someone else has done: Go to the files
> > > > section.
> > > >
> > > >
> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DynoMotion/files/Fouijar%20CNC%20File\
> > \
> > > > s/
> > > > > > es/>
> > > >
> > > > Open Control Enclosure.jpg
> > > > > >
> > blKZDbpKB-scNtHyX3ZR4ykNosOnAgr8voEKlFHukQf8_8Y_0Ir0RoWf_4RiIXBV-Qsg/Fou\
> > \
> > > > ijar%20CNC%20Files/Control%20Enclosure.jpg>
> > > >
> > > > >>A vendor I talked with mentioned there exist DIN things from
> > Phoenix
> > > > Contact that cost around 5$
> > > >
> > > > DIN things? That is difficult to get a part# for. :) Obviously, I am
> > > > joking. I am not sure what useful DIN things you can get for <= $5.
> > You
> > > > may want to talk to him again and find out.
> > > >
> > > > You have to state what voltage and current you are interfacing. If
> > you
> > > > want a relay part number, then we need to know what is going to the
> > coil
> > > > of the relay (KFlop output bit #?) and what voltage/current you need
> > the
> > > > contacts to handle. If you need one N.O, one N.C, multiple contacts,
> > > > etc.
> > > >
> > > > There is no need to worry about relays etc. until you decide on what
> > > > board / components you will use to get the multiple channels of
> > diff
> > > > encoder inputs and +-10V outputs. Unless you are thinking that
> > Phoenix
> > > > Contacts makes some encoder signal converters and DACs for $5??? I
> > do
> > > > not think so, but I do not know.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You are going to want/need some relays even if you end up using
> > KAnalog
> > > > - your voltage/current options for the coils are just much greater.
> > > >
> > > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com > > "ericncn" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes I am already running servos with encoders, but the loop is
> > closed
> > > > on the servo drives only and the KFLOP is using them open loop.
> > > > > As the servo drives have pass-through encoder signals connectors,
> > I
> > > > would like to route the encoder signals to the KFLOP.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, I am currently controlling the servos in quadrature, but
> > once
> > > > the KFLOP will be setup to read the encoders correctly I would also
> > like
> > > > to try controlling the drives in torque mode via 0-10V signals.
> > > > > I also would need a 0-10V output signal to control the new spindle
> > > > motor drive.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you for the links, I'll check them; I remember the Winford
> > been
> > > > mentioned but it doesn't help with interfacing the encoder and the
> > > > analog I/Os.
> > > > >
> > > > > A vendor I talked with mentioned there exist DIN things from
> > Phoenix
> > > > Contact that cost around 5$ (And also Omron and Moeller) but I
> > wasn't
> > > > able to locate them on the huge catalogs
> > > > > that's why I asked if somebody has direct experience with those
> > and
> > > > could point me to the appropriate products so I can order them
>

Hello Dean,

like I said before, the things I'd like to interface now are:

- the pump
- home/limit switches for all axes
- a tool height setter
- a probe
- emergency button

apart the pump, I haven't bought all the other things yet so I don't have the specs.

(And yes, if I had analog outputs it'd help me with the motor drives and the VFD)

Thank you for the explanations.
I'm still confused, but it helps

EC

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "deanw1a" <deanwyant@...> wrote:
>
> I'm sorry, I do not see the answer to my questions -
> except for your pump specs. I figured you had more specs for the other stuff you want to control. Once you said that you wanted 0-10V control signals, I figured you needed to decide how to get them first. The board you use to get them could have other outputs to use. KAnalog certainly does.
>
> I am going to assume that at this time all you want to do is switch your pump on and off using KFlop. If so, you could use either of the suggested relay boards. I believe that both can handle 220VAC on the output contacts and both include supressor diodes installed. You will need to use two relays for the pump because I think each relay only has one pole (can switch only one path - N.O. or N.C.).
> These boards are not DIN rail mounted.
> If you want DIN rail mount relays to switch your pump directly from KFlop LVTTL, I do not know any part numbers. But, I do know that if they are available - they will cost a lot more.
> You could use a logic level converter (LLC) to take the KFlop outputs from 3.3VDC to 5VDC. Then, you would have more options in DIN relays. However, these (LLCs) are ususally little circuit boards that require soldering and/or mounting on a breadboard/circuit board. There may be a screw terminal version available, but I do not know.
>
> Also, you are going to want to put fuses ahead of the pump before the relay contacts to keep those lines from being able to draw a lot of current if there is a short. 1A should do.
>
> Opto isolators would be good, but I do not know any part numbers or sources for ones that will work for LVTTL from KFlop. Search the messages and maybe someone has posted a source. I would think there should be info on relays, optos etc. to use with KFlop.
>
> Sorry I could not be of more help. Hopefully, someone else can give you more specific guidance.
>
> Dean
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "ericncn" <ericnc@> wrote:
> >
> > I see you are repeating same question again and again and I'm repeating same answer again and again.. there's probably some basic misunderstanding on my side, pardon me for that.
> >
> > Maybe you mean that I need to add a DC power supply in order to drive the optoisolated inputs and outputs? If this is obvious for you pardon me, it's not obvious for me... just trying to figure out how all this works before spending money and purchasing the missing items
> >
> > And yes, the pump I am using for flood coolant is 33W, 220 Ac.
> > That was originally a fish tank pump, but the flow it makes is more than enough for my small mill and it's very silent too! Why not use it?
> >
> > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "deanw1a" <deanwyant@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I keep trying to reply but I hit some odd key and lose it all. [:(]
> > > I am sorry... You have to state what voltage and current you are
> > > interfacing. If you want a relay part number, then we need to know what
> > > is going to the coil of the relay (KFlop output bit #?, Kanalog Opto
> > > out, FET out?, other?) and what voltage/current you need the contacts to
> > > handle. If you need one N.O, one N.C, multiple contacts, etc.
> > > Pump = 33W, 220 Ac - This sounds incorrect unless you are talking about
> > > a pump for a water cooled spindle. I thought you meant flood coolant.You
> > > can switch that with just about any small relay. But, you need two N.O.
> > > poles (contacts).
> > >
> > > I would like to help. But, you still need to state what voltage and
> > > current you are going to use to turn the relay on and off. If you do go
> > > with KAnalog, you can use 24VDC which gives you lots of options for
> > > relays. If you use KFlop, your probably stuck with PC board relays like
> > > I already suggested. Perhaps Winford has a DIN mount for theirs? DIN
> > > solid state relays that will work directly with KFlop are probably $25
> > > to $70 each. And, I do not know if they make any with 2 N.O. outputs.
> > > By the way, solid state relays do not need a diode surge suppressor and
> > > most of them have a single N.O. output.
> > > I am sorry, but I have never seen or heard of DIN solid state relays for
> > > $5. Mechanical ones... maybe. You may be able to get a deal like that
> > > buying used on eBay.
> > >
> > > Dean
> > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "ericncn" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I see. That picture is a bit scaring (so many wires) but I see,
> > > Kflop/Kanalog installed on the door.
> > > >
> > > > The cheap DIN "things" I was referring to were the solid state relays
> > > type. Still missing actual price and part number.
> > > >
> > > > Regarding relays one thing I need to interface by sure is the coolant
> > > pump, 33 W 220 AC, would appreciate suggstions on the relay type and
> > > "suppressor" (?) to use
> > > >
> > > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "deanw1a" deanwyant@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You need the KAnalog board (or similar) to do what you are planning.
> > > I
> > > > > do not know if there is another board or combinations of boards that
> > > > > will do everything you have listed (+-10V for drives and VFD, Diff
> > > > > encoder inputs, etc.) . If you use other components instead, you are
> > > > > probably going to spend much more time and money and have more
> > > > > headaches.
> > > > >
> > > > > The wiring from a door to the inside of an enclosure is not too
> > > long.
> > > > > You can mount the KAnalog with the KFlop on top of it and use the
> > > door
> > > > > as an extra wiring panel. You would not be the first one to do it.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is a picture of what someone else has done: Go to the files
> > > > > section.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DynoMotion/files/Fouijar%20CNC%20File\
> > > \
> > > > > s/
> > > > > > > es/>
> > > > >
> > > > > Open Control Enclosure.jpg
> > > > > > >
> > > blKZDbpKB-scNtHyX3ZR4ykNosOnAgr8voEKlFHukQf8_8Y_0Ir0RoWf_4RiIXBV-Qsg/Fou\
> > > \
> > > > > ijar%20CNC%20Files/Control%20Enclosure.jpg>
> > > > >
> > > > > >>A vendor I talked with mentioned there exist DIN things from
> > > Phoenix
> > > > > Contact that cost around 5$
> > > > >
> > > > > DIN things? That is difficult to get a part# for. :) Obviously, I am
> > > > > joking. I am not sure what useful DIN things you can get for <= $5.
> > > You
> > > > > may want to talk to him again and find out.
> > > > >
> > > > > You have to state what voltage and current you are interfacing. If
> > > you
> > > > > want a relay part number, then we need to know what is going to the
> > > coil
> > > > > of the relay (KFlop output bit #?) and what voltage/current you need
> > > the
> > > > > contacts to handle. If you need one N.O, one N.C, multiple contacts,
> > > > > etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is no need to worry about relays etc. until you decide on what
> > > > > board / components you will use to get the multiple channels of
> > > diff
> > > > > encoder inputs and +-10V outputs. Unless you are thinking that
> > > Phoenix
> > > > > Contacts makes some encoder signal converters and DACs for $5??? I
> > > do
> > > > > not think so, but I do not know.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You are going to want/need some relays even if you end up using
> > > KAnalog
> > > > > - your voltage/current options for the coils are just much greater.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com > > "ericncn" wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes I am already running servos with encoders, but the loop is
> > > closed
> > > > > on the servo drives only and the KFLOP is using them open loop.
> > > > > > As the servo drives have pass-through encoder signals connectors,
> > > I
> > > > > would like to route the encoder signals to the KFLOP.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also, I am currently controlling the servos in quadrature, but
> > > once
> > > > > the KFLOP will be setup to read the encoders correctly I would also
> > > like
> > > > > to try controlling the drives in torque mode via 0-10V signals.
> > > > > > I also would need a 0-10V output signal to control the new spindle
> > > > > motor drive.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you for the links, I'll check them; I remember the Winford
> > > been
> > > > > mentioned but it doesn't help with interfacing the encoder and the
> > > > > analog I/Os.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A vendor I talked with mentioned there exist DIN things from
> > > Phoenix
> > > > > Contact that cost around 5$ (And also Omron and Moeller) but I
> > > wasn't
> > > > > able to locate them on the huge catalogs
> > > > > > that's why I asked if somebody has direct experience with those
> > > and
> > > > > could point me to the appropriate products so I can order them
> >
>